Beyond Your Limits with Dr. Christine Jehu

128. You Can Rest AND Be Great: A Conversation with Dr. Meghan Hurley-Powell

• Dr. Christine Jehu

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Today, I'm thrilled to welcome back Dr. Meghan Hurley-Powell, our favorite journaling ninja. In this conversation, we challenge societal norms of success, redefine greatness on our own terms, and explore how a slow and intentional approach towards our goals can lead to personal growth and meaningful work.  

We talk about...
- The consequences of fast action
- Coming full circle on calling your shot
- Facing burnout and making values aligned pivots
- The power of therapy
& so much more!

The challenge we leave you with in this episode is to slow down, take breaks, and reconnect with yourself. After all, greatness isn't about speed, it's about the journey and the power of small, consistent steps towards our goals.

Connect with Meghan

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Speaker 1:

What does it look like to live a life beyond your limits?

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Dr CJ, a copy obsessed psychologist coach and your personal virtual mentor. Too many of us are holding ourselves back, placing limits on what's possible and believing the false stories in our head that say we can't accomplish a goal or a dream. Together, we will rewrite the stories holding us back, tackle barriers and limits and build an incredible foundation for going after our goals and dreams. I'm here to support you, to challenge you and to coach you through and beyond your limits. And a quick caveat while I am a psychologist, the show is not therapy or a substitute for mental health treatment. Please connect with a licensed mental health provider for those needs. Alright, are you ready to live a life beyond your limits? Let's get after it. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome back. Oh, I am so excited for this episode. I just got done recording with our favorite journaling, ninja.

Speaker 1:

If you have been a longtime listener, you have heard Dr Megan Hurley Powell on the podcast before. She has shared with us her mental health story. She's also come on and talked about her book all about journaling and today we had a really just open conversation about hustle culture, fast action and how we can be great, moving, slow, right and slow in comparison to the societal standards of what it looks like to be successful and hustle and all of the things. And one of the things that I love the most when I have conversations with Megan, whether it's on the podcast or in real life, she is so willing to be in the process of processing and so she has a number of insights during this episode. I have an insight in this episode and there's just such such greatness, so many takeaways, so I'm not going to talk a whole lot. The episode will speak for itself.

Speaker 1:

But I just want to make sure that you one have gotten your daily pages. We are about at October I cannot even believe that and so make sure that you head to the link in the show notes to get signed up to get your daily pages. I'll be sending it out again so, folks, you don't have to like keep digging back into your inbox for it. Those of you who've gotten it in the past will pop it back up in there. And then also make sure that you are on the beyond your limits insiders list. If you were on beyond the couch insiders list previously, please re-sign up. We're going to be moving and getting getting those pieces out coming soon.

Speaker 1:

Right, part of what you'll hear Megan and I talk about is is that contrast between fast, messy action and then intentional slow growth, and so I'm in that season of slow growth. I'm making sure that I'm adding elements to this show and to my life that can be sustainable and of high quality to you, so want to make sure that you're on these lists so, as things are dropping, I can get them out to you and then we'll be working towards some more consistent insider content coming to you. So that is all. I am going to stop talking now and get over to the conversation with my dear, dear friend, dr Megan Hurley-Powell. You know what I realized? I think you are the most, you're like, the highest return guest on on the show and you're the first guest on beyond your limits since we've pivoted and are making some changes. So I love that.

Speaker 2:

Welcome, I think you're the, you're the you, and you and Meredith are the most frequently returned guests. I think on mine too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I feel like we should like send each other little awards, or whatever.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

What are they? There's another podcaster that I listened to who talks about like the jackets that they, I guess, give people on Saturday Night Live for when they've been on a certain amount of time, so. That's awesome, send little tax or something.

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh gosh.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm so excited to have you back. You and I have been having some behind the scenes conversations just about life and business, and I mean you say it all the time like we leave these conversations with so many juicy nuggets and like things that we want to do that it just is too good not to share it with the world. So thanks for coming back.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Thank you.

Speaker 1:

I want to just start. You know folks who've been around listening to be on the couch before heard you. Come on, talk about your book and the journaling and all of the things we call you our favorite journaling ninja. But yeah, give us a high level overview of of where you've been and where you are now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh my gosh. Okay, I'll try to be as brief as I possibly can. So, oh man, I don't even know what year all of this started. All of the years since I got married in 2019 kind of have blurred together, and I try to keep them separate because so much has happened, but it's probably all going to like blur together anyway. But so I think, going all the way back to 2020, that was when I really decided I wanted to work on myself.

Speaker 2:

One of my family members got into a car accident and, miracle of all miracles, made it through, didn't hurt anybody else, didn't get hurt themselves, and so I was like, okay, this is kind of a wake up call. I feel super pessimistic, I need to work on my mindset, and so I started to work on myself. That's when I first started to get into journaling, is when I discovered podcasts, is when I should have discovered therapy as well. We don't show it on ourselves around here, I know, I know, but yeah, I just really wanted to work on myself, and so I had found my way into a online community and it was amazing. It was amazing. I met so many women through that community and it was. It was absolutely amazing, it was absolutely great, and I found myself one night on a on a zoom call with like 60 other women.

Speaker 1:

And you were.

Speaker 2:

I think you were yeah with like 60 other women and you know, kasia get Mary had asked me. You know, okay, you don't like your life or your job as a professor or whatever Like. So what do you want to do? And I know I was wearing like blue blocker glasses and I was wearing like one of my husband's flannel shirts and I just like felt this like bubbling and simmering and like I started sweating and I'm pretty sure that the glass is fogged up and just all this stuff just started like spewing out of me like, oh my God, I know exactly what I want to do. I want to write books. I want to teach women how to write books. I want to start a publishing house like all these things that I wanted to do. Had you thought that before?

Speaker 1:

or did it? Just like all of the pieces came and it was like, literally in that moment you're like holy shit, this is it, yeah, yeah kind of all in that moment.

Speaker 2:

Like I'd always wanted to write books. I knew that I'd always wanted to write books. Like being an author is a lifelong, lifelong dream. Like little Megan playing with dolls, narrating things, creating stories yeah, that was. That has always been a lifelong dream for me. But the other things, like the publishing things, the teaching women how to write books, all of that was like in the moment, you know, and I was like, oh my gosh, and I got off the phone or off the phone. I got off the zoom call after I had said all that and I was like this feels so aligned, this feels so good. I called my husband. He our laptops had crapped out on us and so he was in Kansas City getting us new laptop.

Speaker 1:

How are you going to do this? We don't even have laptop.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly so he was buying us new laptops that we could not afford.

Speaker 2:

and I called him and I was like oh my God, oh my God, like I was just like pacing around my house, like so amped up, and I'm like this is what I want to do and after that I had taken so much fast action, like I was already in the pretty fast lane on the personal growth, self development, but I like course corrected into the fastest formula one lane and was like let's go, you know, and it was awesome, right, because I was living in a place that, again, like I said, I didn't like my job, I did not like the town, none of it was a line, but I was kind of stuck there because I mean, this is like a whole other conversation but academia is very difficult to get new jobs in, it's very difficult to transition, right, like it's a whole ass process and so we were very like stuck right and what I couldn't see then?

Speaker 1:

He was in academia too, right? Yes, yes, my husband was in academia too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but we were working for the same college. I was a professor and adjunct, right, and he at the time was the writing center director, tutor, tutoring coordinator at the school, and so, yeah, so we were both in it and working at a university that had a lot of problems, you know, in a town that just had nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing like Amish, like the road with the Amish. There was no Walmart, there was no CVS, there was no Walmart.

Speaker 1:

I feel like every small town has at least the closest.

Speaker 2:

The closest Walmart was 30 minutes away, so we were very isolated. We were very isolated and it was a very toxic work. Culture right. And so what I didn't know then that I totally know now is that me getting into the you know super formula one fast lane toward my goals was serious escapism and serious like coping with the my shitty reality yes, Right, yes. And so when I was at that I was just like, ooh, I'm super ambitious, Like look at me, go, like, let's go Right.

Speaker 1:

And it feels good, right, like you finally have that thing that you're like amped about, right, I mean it's like literally the fuel in the car, the formula one car.

Speaker 2:

It really, it really was, and so I would. I was, and so, in academia, like maybe you can connect to this or someone else who's also in academia, or just you know their jobs seems like everything to them. Like your job is your identity, right. And so you go to work. You know you are a capital P professor. Like this is this is what you are, this is who you are, this is what you do Right. And so I had to spend a lot of time disconnecting my identity and my worth from my job and I. So, after I disconnected from that, I was like I needed something else to connect it to. I couldn't just be a person on my own, and so I connected it to this fast moving, fast action taking ambitious woman Right. And that's who I became. Like formula one, fast going toward my goals, right, yeah, and, like you said, it felt super good.

Speaker 1:

It felt very, very good and I was just like Cause you just had like endorphins and stuff just like pumping through you. I mean, those dopamine hits are no joke and like you needed them at the time they were serving you.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely, absolutely, and so so, yeah, so I, I would go to work, I would do my job, whatever, and I would go home and I would work on my stuff, like I would work on my own writing, I would work on, you know, gaining a presence on Instagram through like, through being authentic, through doing things. I was pouring all my extra time and energy into the business, into the goals, into the direction I wanted to go, and I don't even know how long it was ever since I called my shot on those goals and dreams that. I think it was within two years. I think it was within a two year span.

Speaker 1:

I had I think it was early 2020, like wasn't that like right before the pandemic Cause? I remember where I was, like where I was sitting. It was either like right at the start of the pandemic or just before.

Speaker 2:

It was kind of still in the beginning, like that was around like like October, september, october.

Speaker 2:

November somewhere in there, so it was kind of it was pretty like you know well into it, I think. But yeah, so in a matter of like two years, I had wrote my own book, I had taught a group of women to write books. I also had started my publishing house, right, so, and that was just so much action in such a short amount of time, right, massive action, yeah, and massive action, right, fast and massive that I. So it became October of 2022. And we went to a live event, right, empower her live. Right, where we got to meet for the first time in person. We had this amazing experience. It was so great.

Speaker 2:

And after that, I got home and I was like I am so fucking tired. Yeah, like I am so tired. And I had been battling for a very long time lots of anxiety, like tons of anxiety, lots of just like I am just exhausted. So where there once were endorphins was now like anxiety. So I was miserable going to work. I was miserable working on my stuff because there was all this like pressure that I was putting on myself because, oh my gosh, I'm the fast action taking girl. Like that's what I do. I drive the Formula One car and I go fast. I call my shop publicly on big goals and dreams. And it was. It was another and I didn't know this then, but I know this now. It was another identity, like crisis yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know so before you were recognized on the damn stage at that event for taking that fast action. So, not only was it something that you attached to right and, I think, in a way that you needed to, but there was also, you know, do we call them expectations or like, this identity like thrust upon you and you were sort of like paraded as the poster child for what was being preached.

Speaker 2:

Very much so yeah, absolutely, absolutely right. And so, yeah, and I just yeah, so I was just like, oh my gosh, like I just, I need, I just had this overwhelming feel of like I need a break. You know, like I need a break, like. But that was also scary because I'm like I don't know who, like who I am, I hate my job and now my business is sort of burning me out a little bit. Like, what, like, what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 2:

Right, so it was very hard, and so I knew that I wanted to get out of the town. Right, I was like we need to get out. You know all these things, right, and I had talked to you about this where I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't know if we can ever like get out, like I don't know if I can ever get my own, like my own job, all this like stuff, cause academia again is so toxic and so difficult to crack into, right, and I'm in literature, so, like it's even you know there's like a thousand people that apply for one job. You know it's it's like ridiculous.

Speaker 2:

And so yeah, very much so. And so I was like, okay, I don't know what to do. And you were like apply to as many jobs as you can, just like throw it out there and see what happens, you know. And I was like, okay, cool. So a couple of weeks after I got back from not even weeks, like, maybe like a week or two I applied to a job that I don't remember applying for. I just kind of threw my hat in the ring and they called me and they sent me an email because they were really impressed with my resume and it was a school in Arkansas, it was a high school in Arkansas, and they were like we really would love to interview you. So, like a couple of days later, I have the interview. I felt about the interview I was like, oh my God, they asked all these great questions like hard questions, and I just felt like I was like rusty, kind of like out of practice. I was like, oh, whatever, you know, if I get it, I get it. I don't, I don't. The next morning they call me and they're like we really want to bring you to campus, like we really need you to come and see what we're all about, right, and I was like, yeah, sure.

Speaker 2:

So it was the Monday before, like the Monday of Thanksgiving, I go down to that campus and I go down and you know, I teach for a whole entire day at the school, like four classes, they're 90 minutes long each, like 25 minutes for lunch. Like we're like go go, go, going, right, and I fucking loved it. I loved it so much. I was like, oh, this feels like home, because I had been struggling to not just with the place I was living, but with my job. I'm like I can't even fake my way through being a professor anymore. I'm so freaking miserable, you know.

Speaker 2:

And I thought I hated teaching, I thought I wanted out of teaching, but I was just in the wrong context, in the wrong town and the wrong learners to like be happy, right. And so I was like, oh, my God, this feels so stinkin' good, right, like this job feels so good. And I went into that job without expectation. I was like you know what? I'm just going to have fun, I'm just going to just do what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna rely on my expertise, like we're gonna do this, it's gonna be great and whatever. I completely detach from the outcome, right, because before you know, with being a professor and with being the woman who calls her shot and pursues goals so openly and boldly and quickly, like those other things were very outcome-driven, right when it's like oh, you're a professor, like this is supposed to be the great thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the status right Like with the goals and the dreams. It was like, oh, I wanted to build this like multi-million dollar company with this awesome underlying philanthropic mission, super, super quick, like it was all outcome-driven. And I go into this other situation and I'm like this is not about what happens at the end, this is about enjoying myself. This is about getting back to enjoying teaching and just being great for the sake of being great, right.

Speaker 2:

Not for the accolades, not for the status, not for the result. Just go in and enjoy yourself and just be great. Right, and I ended up getting the job.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you did.

Speaker 2:

It was offered to me on the spot, like all the things, and then. So that was Monday and they called me with the counter offer, because we negotiated everything on the spot. They called me with the counter offer on Wednesday and I took it, and then the next day we were eating turkey.

Speaker 1:

Like it was Like it was saying we were eating turkey. That is a call.

Speaker 2:

It was insane. And then I started the job on January 2nd, so I mean, it was like this, crazy fast and I feel like we're getting so far into the weeds and I'm like so sorry, no, it's good.

Speaker 1:

No, don't apologize.

Speaker 2:

So I, yeah, so it got this new job. Like my husband and I moved. We moved to Northwest Arkansas and we freaking love it so much. I love my job, I love the kids, it's so much fun. It's so much fun Like, since starting. Well, okay, so before I even get there, so yeah, so I just love that we moved, it was super fast, all these things right, and I was in a point where I, like, all I could handle when we moved was the job right, because it was a new context, new learners, long classes right, I just needed to adjust to it.

Speaker 1:

So all I had to do Not to mention you and your husband picked up your whole life and your dog right. You moved to this new town. I think people underestimate the impact of like starting a new job that's a lot but then moving to a different state. You have to change your license plates, get new.

Speaker 2:

You have to change your driver's license.

Speaker 1:

I know, right, you have to use maps to get everywhere you go. Yes, yeah, so there's so much energy, like cognitive and emotional energy, that goes into simply navigating the logistics of a new setting, let alone a new job, like all of these things, yeah, and in so many ways it was so awesome because it was like we went from a town with no Walmart to which Walmart do we wanna choose?

Speaker 2:

Because we live in the mecca of Walmart's here in Northwest Arkansas.

Speaker 1:

Like this is where Walmart was founded.

Speaker 2:

So we're like oh my gosh, so just our world opened up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I remember texting with you about like you better get those Starbucks points ready or whatever. Started to earn all the stars. Oh my God, right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

When we were living in Iowa, we would We'd go to Des Moines and we'd make a thing of it right. There were some days where it didn't even make sense. It was like a weekday and we'd just run up to Des Moines, which was an hour away from where we were living in Limoni, just to feel like good. We were like I just wanna get out, Like it was that overwhelming, let's get out. And we would buy four Starbucks drinks to last us the rest of like the week or whatever because it's like you couldn't.

Speaker 1:

So we had all these like gross leftover Starbucks drinks.

Speaker 2:

It was just a mess. It was a mess.

Speaker 1:

And so we moved here. Now you get fresh Starbucks whatever you want. Yes, fresh.

Speaker 2:

Starbucks whenever. It's the best thing ever, but yeah, so I mean there was like restaurants and Walmart and like it was just it was overwhelming, but in like the best way, you know. But I was still like the idea of taking a break, needing a break, still didn't go away. So I was like, okay, all I can literally handle is my job. And I was like I wanna just handle one more thing, like what else can I handle? So it was just my job and it was podcasting.

Speaker 2:

I showed up to the podcast. You know I've never missed, I've never missed a Tuesday, right, and it's because I wanted to, not because I felt like I had to or whatever. So I was like job and podcasting, that's all I got. And so I adult with a lot of lack of motivation. I was like now I don't even wanna do my business at all.

Speaker 2:

I was like I don't wanna do this at all and I was like I have no idea what I'm gonna do, what this is, and I just chose I had to work really hard at this but just like really leaning fully into rest because I think and we can get into this later but like I think we half-ass our rest, you know, 100% Like all the time, yeah. And so I was like, okay, if I'm on a rest, like I'm gonna be in it, right. And so I just I dropped everything. I dropped everything besides my job and podcasting and I was like we're gonna be fully, fully in this right, not sitting on the couch and writing Instagram captions, not taking a hike and thinking how can I turn this into like a?

Speaker 1:

lesson to pin on Instagram yeah, Not whatever right.

Speaker 2:

And so I was like we're gonna be fully in this rest. And so in that it was great, I needed it. I needed to majorly recover from that burnout, you know, and just kind of learn how to be a person and restart the goals you know. And I feel like for the very first time, my worth and my identity wasn't attached to anything but just myself, and I was like I love that so much, thank you. And I was just like okay, and then from that place I could then start back up with my business.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely so. That was Because it's you starting it up right.

Speaker 1:

Like I think about the whole part of your story, is this desire to like get back to yourself, and part of it was you needed to do something that created the momentum that opened up the doors and the opportunity for you to leave that town and to get into a different place and I think so often people look back at their stories and feel like something was wrong with it or oh my gosh, it didn't turn out this way and we lose the process, right Like, and you even said you were so focused on the outcome goal, and there's this whole thing that we teach, like, especially in sport, but it applies to all of our lives, right Like, the process goals versus the outcome goals, and the process goals are what helps us ensure the outcome. But if we're so focused on this, this accolade or this score or the win or the loss, whatever we can lose, we lose ourself in that, right Cause we are not active participants in our life. And I think about your choice to focus on your job and then the podcast.

Speaker 1:

I've known you since you've started your podcast and we were just like texting last night about remember those days when we used to script our podcast and here we are like rolling into this, being like let's see where the conversation takes us, but I think that also was a connection to self and a place that you have found freedom to be fully you, while also teaching and providing a really impactful value for others.

Speaker 1:

But it's that way that you've found your voice that I think you needed, whether you realized it or not. Like that outlet is that can? It's almost like a verbal journal for you, right? And that's so beautiful. I've talked to so many other people who've maintained their podcasts for that reason, because it gives you that opportunity to stay in the moment with yourself while you're producing and being reflective because you have more of a personal growth podcast, so that's good shit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right, so, yeah, so, just here. You know, here we are, and I started my business back up in April and it was very slow but steady, you know, and there still was some anxiety with it, right, because I'm just like I still have that imposter syndrome of like ooh, like I don't really know what it is that I'm doing, you know, and I started gave myself the gift of actually going to therapy and like working through some of that like perfectionism stuff, right, and God dang it. I wish that I would have started, you know, in 2020, because that shit is good shit, you know, it's so helpful, and you know the person that I you also weren't ready for that phase of it, right, you know?

Speaker 1:

I think a lot of us can kudashe'd a wooda's all over ourselves. But when you think about the stages of change, right, you got into journaling and listening to podcasts, which was that like preparation phase to then take action in therapy. Right, you were taking action on yourself, but you needed to lay the groundwork. You needed to get in touch with some of those pieces before you could even go into a room and open your mouth and have any sense of what you wanted to ask for. So, could we all have gone to therapy six months prior to when we started? Absolutely, but it wasn't the right time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure, for sure, so yeah, and just yeah, just working through like all of that kind of stuff was just like super, super helpful, you know, and so yeah, it just led to like a whole new level of, like, you know, self-awareness and stuff like that. So that was super cool and it just kind of, you know, here we are. We're getting ready to release our second novel, you know, which is awesome, and I think I'm gonna release my essay collection in March, which is very exciting and it's a collection it's called Not Too Small and it's just a ton of writing I've done over the past couple of years that I'm, you know, fixing and tweaking and stuff. And the whole premise of that book is just like we all have stories and you know, just because you haven't gone ziplining or bungee jumping off a cliff in Costa Rica or gone hiking 3,000 miles by yourself or lived on the streets, it doesn't mean that you don't have a voice or you don't have a story to tell that's valuable. So that's what the collection is all about and stuff.

Speaker 2:

And I just I have this new expectation for my business. It's no longer the outcome of this massive company, multimillion dollar company. It just is a meeting at where it's at right, which is a very small indie publishing company that still has a mission. That's awesome and it's gonna grow how it's gonna grow, and there's no expectation or timeline on it. I'm just enjoying the stories and the process for the sake of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it makes me think about the difference between size and impact. Right Like there are businesses out there making millions of dollars, but what's the excuse me, what's the true impact that they're having on the world? Right Like you could be selling something that's completely frivolous, but everyone decides they want it. Right Like, throw away sunglasses and then what are we doing? We're contributing to mounds and mounds of trash blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2:

You know, like all of this, bullshit.

Speaker 1:

When you are one, you're making an impact on the people who are putting the work out into the world right, like be it you or your other authors. And then I mean you know the transformational nature of a book when it's in your hands.

Speaker 2:

I do.

Speaker 1:

And so you know that impact only ripples. And also like publishing is not a fast, no, it's not World. You know, I was listening to another podcaster who's also an author and she's like I'm getting ready to publish a book that I finished writing two years ago and Granite Hurst's. This one was a children's book, so it had illustration and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

But like the fact that you wrote and published a book in like a 12 month time span in the world of publishing, like the fact that you are smaller in size and indie, like you have the ability to produce things a bit faster. But it also doesn't mean that an author has to sit down on a weekend and crank this out and have this expectation that in three months it's gonna be out in the world, Like it just doesn't work that way.

Speaker 1:

So, you're almost like what you're creating. The structure of it also probably forced you to slow down, because unless you were doing this full time, how could you help you know, review and publish and do all of these things? Because how do you edit when your brain is half empty? Because you just taught all day Like you don't Exactly exactly, exactly right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and there is that element of not forcing myself like cause. I would do that all the time, back when I lived in Iowa, where it was like just forced myself to keep going, like there were so many nights where it was like still eight o'clock and I'm banging out something, you know, and it wasn't passion fueling it, it was anxiety fueling it, like I can't slow down. What happens if I slow down? I lose all my momentum. Everything was so anxiety, fear based, and now it's just like we're just plodding along all happy leg where it's like okay, if this gets done, it gets done, if it doesn't, it doesn't. Like this is great.

Speaker 2:

You know, couple of weekends ago I was writing an essay for my collection and you know I had finished it. Like I had taken a couple of weekends to work on it and I had finally finished it. I was like man, it took me a couple of weekends to do this and I could just leave it unfinished. There wasn't this like pressure to finish it right. There wasn't this like oh, you're less than because you didn't finish your essay. Like no, none of this, like I just have I don't know, I wish I had more concrete. You know answers as to, like how I got there. But it's just this, it's just different. Everything I'm approaching is different because I'm no longer hustling, I'm no longer taking fast action, I'm no longer rushing toward any sort of like outcome, like we are so slow but steady, the slowest hiker on the path, and like I'm finally okay with that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Cause you're still on the path. Yeah Right, you didn't quit, right? I think if you hadn't had this evolution, you would have thrown it all out the window.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, that was close to do.

Speaker 1:

Like that would have just continued to fuel the anxiety.

Speaker 2:

Oh for sure, I was so close to just like tossing all of it away too, and that's the crazy thing. I think that's something that we don't talk about. No one talks about when it comes to fast action. It's glorified, it's just like sexy. Oh, look at her, go Like she's. You know, she was on the ground and now she's in the clouds, right, and it's like no, we do not talk about how fucking toxic it can be when you take this fast action. It creates anxiety, it creates fear. It's that that can be not for everybody, but that can be. The consequence of taking fast action is burnout and anxiety and just all this like doing it and you don't even realize it happens, you do it for the wrong reason and it's just glorified in our society. Nobody thinks that slow action slow but steady is sexy, but that's just. I will preach that to the day, the day that I die. It's like slow, slow but steady is so much better than going for the moon in two months.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, I say it all the time. Right, it's the small unsexy actions done consistently over time that gives to the big sexy outcome.

Speaker 2:

It's like filtering into my brain like all your awesomeness.

Speaker 1:

yeah, seriously I'm wondering if you could speak to like, if you could compare and contrast the anxiety filled you like. I want you to talk about what it feels like in your body, the like, the then versus now. And I know some behind the scenes, but I think when we talk about the difference and like, how do we know right, and I think we get this faxed action piece like it's a so disconnected from our being right and it's celebrated right, like sleep when you're dead, caffeine to the moon, drink all four of your Starbucks from Des Moines At once. You know like there's and that's the shit that we see and people celebrate that, but it's truly hurting us and right, and it's gonna impact our longevity and our lifespan. So I give this is my invitation, because I know you have a very strong comparing contrast and so this is my invitation for the listener to think my watch just was like you did it, cause I was like flailing my hands, and it thinks I was just standing. That's so funny.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, like this invitation to like, come back to self, be back in process, because once we start to notice some of those nuance shifts, like we can course correct far faster.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh man, yeah, I would have like constant anxiety, so like how anxiety felt in the body, right. So, yeah, man, it's always like in concentrated to like my back, you know it's always concentrated like to the back, which is super interesting. And you know, adam Power, her, we, you know, I had like told you that where it's like we're in this room of like women breathing and meditating and I'm sitting there panicking because I'm like I can't get a full breath into my body because it just feels like it's blocked, right, and so we had done that visualization, sort of and conquer, concretizing the problem, right? Is that what it's called?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yes why did I just blank on my own thing. Whatever Externalizing, no, no, no, externalizing, there we go. Externalizing, yeah, not concretizing, oh my God, but yeah so externalizing the problem right.

Speaker 2:

And so we had like comes with the conclusion it was like located in the back right and it was like it just felt like this giant, like bar, that's just like pressing down right and so, having you know, and we came to the conclusion that it's, you know, the inner critic and I was just constantly like judging myself and stuff like that, and so it was like being able to visualize it and just like move it up my back like a bar and you can just like throw it away. Right, it was super, super helpful and that was so helpful All of those months and still, you know, still is helpful, right, because when I get stressed out, when I get like anxious, like that's like what happens to it, it's like myself judges, like it's so much self judgment that it's like gotta get that up and out, up and out of the body.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that judgment like it just was constricting you right, like it was like putting a vice on you. And so how can we, how can we be great, how can we expand and live into who we are if there's this constriction? And you, like I mean, I just remember you, you were in this like shell and then, in a matter of 30 minutes, you were like taking up space, you were crossing your legs, you were like owning that shit because your body was finally free.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah for sure, absolutely, absolutely Right. And yeah, I, it's so interesting that you know, and now, where I'm at like now, yeah, it was so, it was so constricting, and now I, it's very rare that I feel like that the anxiety can compound enough to be physical in the body, right when, and I think it's. And I think it's because I'm living my life differently. I'm not on this fast action track where it's like, oh, if I come home and I just want to like scroll on my phone or watch some TV or read a book, I don't feel the anxiety compound in my body to be like, oh, you shouldn't be doing that, you're lazy, you're not an ambitious woman, you're falling behind.

Speaker 2:

Like I don't do anything really Monday through Friday during the work week because I'm tired from getting from getting home. You know for you, my husband, thank you. My husband and I will debrief on our days Like I'll have a dozen funny stories to tell them about the amazing kids I teach. Oh, I love them so much. You know, like my parents might call and then on Wednesdays and Fridays I go work out with a friend from school.

Speaker 2:

Like I'm living my life, yeah, you know, and it might not be like sexy, and sometimes it might be like, oh, that was maybe a little too much scrolling, but I just am allowing myself in this stage of life to just be how I want to be. Yeah, and that's okay, and it doesn't. So then, because of that, I like the anxiety doesn't come, like it doesn't compound, like I haven't felt the bar in a very, very long time. I did not realize, and I did not realize any of that until this very like moment, like talking to you, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

So what does it feel like in your body now? Now, the bar is not there. What are you feeling?

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, I haven't like I don't know, I haven't like thought about that, I think I don't know Like, I think it's like moved. It's no longer like that, like self constriction. I feel like if any place I feel it, it's more so, like now kind of like in like the chest, like heart area instead, yeah, but and I haven't really truly thought about that like very much but I also now have tools from therapy to like help with it and I think that's like part of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what if you don't focus on the anxiety, just like? What do you feel? Like? Well, what do I? Feel like on the day to day basis, like what is like without that bar in your back. What are you noticing now?

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, like just so much, so much more. You know, I don't feel tethered to my computer, like I don't feel the need to do anything, like I'm living for myself. It feels I don't know it, just it feels it feels free. It doesn't feel as like constricting, I guess I need to think more about that.

Speaker 1:

Your shoulders are far more relaxed, your face right, your face is calmer and you have more energy and light behind your eyes than I've ever seen in you before.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. No, I usually was always like All right, what's happening?

Speaker 1:

What's happening, oh my God like what's going on Where's?

Speaker 1:

the danger coming from Like yeah for sure, right, yeah, and like you don't have to be, I think that's the interesting piece, right? Is there's so much power in understanding what are we experiencing in our body and how are we labeling it right? And working with athletes I use the comparison all the time of, okay, you're having some of that anxiety, that, like, poop your pants, maybe I'm going to throw up kind of feeling before a game, probably similar to the first time you went to an amusement park and you were going to ride a roller coaster. Physiologically we're experiencing it the same, but we're labeling it. Two very different things, right? And we have like I'm going to go get on a roller coaster and I'm so excited. So first time I'm going to go upside down and my mom's with me and afterwards we're going to get popcorn and like whatever. And then this one same physiological response, but the label is oh my gosh, this is my first start. What if I screw up? Then I would end that spiral and we could label it the same excitement, right, I'm so excited for this start.

Speaker 1:

This is my opportunity. Let's go. I'm going to go big. I'm going to make, I'm going to allow myself to fuck up and make a mistake, because I know I can bounce back Like and that's I feel like that's where you're sitting now is you've taken all this fast action which has has resulted in something beautiful, right you? You have a freaking business. You have a book out in the world. You're about to publish another. You've got other books in the world with the name of your publishing house on it. Right, like I I don't know how many times I've gone around and be like I have a friend who has a publishing house and one day, when I write my book, homegirls got to like put it out in the world and I'm like how about being with a publishing house? It's funny I was just talking to Joy the other night of like all the different Megans in my life and I was like Megan with the publishing house, megan who's wedding we're going to.

Speaker 2:

She's like where are you? That's so cute.

Speaker 1:

Megan's coming from, but like you've done all of this and it's it's served a purpose, right, and so I think I think part of the conversation that isn't had often is the value of the action that we take, in the time in which we took it and what it served right Like we were talking before we started, or you said it on here, right Like the escapism piece.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

And you know I can resonate with that so much, like the podcast, for me when I started, it was another outlet, another place for me to escape, for me to connect to me, to do something for myself.

Speaker 1:

And then, as things shifted in my life, I was like, wow, I'm actually connected to my lived experience again.

Speaker 1:

I'm like building these relationships that are in real life, like humans that I can touch, and I'm going to honor that and take this step away and slow down, right, like we've gone through this slow down phase at the same time, but I don't think we were like talking about it together until like six months into it, yeah, and so I want to honor what you did and that it got you to where you are and being in academics, right, like we were talking, you have a confined 15 weeks, like do all of this stuff in 15 weeks and then you can take a break for three, maybe four weeks and then we're going to do it again.

Speaker 1:

And you know. So I think we're in this. We've been trained right In this world of academia to push, push, push, to achieve, to do this, but it's all within these other people's limits, right, and so we have both like in our own ways and our own parts of the world, like have broken down those barriers and realized, like cool, here's all this stuff that I've learned and I'm going to like remix it and make it my own. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely All of that. And I think, going back to what you had said about honoring, like how far I've come, yes, I mean, I just recently started to kind of like make peace with all the fast action that I took, because at the time that's what I did need, like, yes, it was coping, it was escapism, it was, but it was also survival. You know, in some ways it's like I like I needed that. That was like you said, like that was my lifeline, to just yeah, it was just my lifeline.

Speaker 1:

So I think I think it's you needed that to tap into your greatness right Like.

Speaker 1:

I remember coming up to you at that event and you were like dear in a headlights and I was like you do not recognize all of the greatness that's in you, so you needed that right To get get shit moving, yeah, and almost to say like, well, damn, I have my name on something. I need to follow that action and like show up as that person. I had that moment, too, when I was going through grad school and I went on all these interviews for my internship year and I came back and I was like, oh my God, I just told all of these people that this is what I do. Like I better show up in the room and like actually do it. It's not like I was lying, but I went into these rooms and I was like, yeah, this is how I approach this and this is. And then I was like, oh yeah, like let's live that out, you know right.

Speaker 1:

Because like no, part of you was lying or like being this false part of you, but it was like it was almost like our, our inner self, was coming out front and was just like boom, I'm going to go. And then, like our actual, lived self, had to catch up with it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, for sure, for sure. It's so funny too, because one of the things that I have hanging in my classroom is like I have tons of like posters and stuff. Like I'm that person, like I've got like posters galore in my classroom and one of the things that is hanging it's not a poster, it's a sign. It's like a little sign that says everything is figure outable. And that is the sign that the kids comment on the most. You know they're like is that a real word? I'm like hell. Yeah, it's a real word. Of course, don't say hell, but I'm like yeah, heck.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a word, like we're going to make it a word. You know, and they're like, you know they, just every day somebody will comment on it. You know, and in my interview I even had said I was like you know, I don't even remember what they had asked me, but you know, I remember saying I have an unwavering, very deep belief that I am able to figure something out. You know, I was like I can do that, like whatever you throw at me, like I will figure, I will figure it out. You know, and I think that that, like, it's just that you're just making my brain spin with this idea of like letting the true self out.

Speaker 2:

You know, and sometimes I think that when you're moving so fast, you might not be able to be your full self or connect with your full self, you know, and so now, just, I don't know, like that, none of that is making any sense, but it's just, I don't know, like, but just that idea of me being in that interview and saying, oh, I can figure, I can figure anything out, like it's, you know, it's great, like it wasn't a lie, like I don't know if I'm even capable of telling a lie because it's good, I'm going to feel it in my body and it's going to hurt me, you know, really, really badly.

Speaker 2:

And so I was like, yeah, I can figure stuff out. And they were like cool and I just was able to step into the job and just let that full, true self like shine right and like not, and and disconnecting from the outcome of like oh, I really want this job and just having fun, because fun is hard for me to have Sometimes because I get too caught up in my head right and I, just, I, just I was not in my head, I was just in my body, I was in the moment.

Speaker 2:

I'm like we're going to have fun, we're just going to do this and it's going to go how it's going to go. I'm just going to enjoy it, right, and you know, you were there at empower her live, right, like on that stage. I was, oh my gosh. And what nobody knew is, about 15 minutes before that happened, I had to leave the room to go poop my brains out and then had to step out of that stage.

Speaker 2:

And I was like, oh my God, I think I'm going to die. And I was just so tear like I, I was not my true self on that stage until I stopped because I started to talk and I got it all messed up and I was trying to to put up this like facade of like I'm cool, I'm breezy, like I got this. And I was not cool and breezy and I was like I don't have this. And it wasn't until I made space for fear on the stage with me that I was like no, woo, like we can, we can do this right.

Speaker 2:

And you know, there there are more and more moments in my life, in my life, that are happening that way where I don't let. It's like whenever, man, I don't know, I'm just like kind of just figuring some of this stuff out in like real time, but like when I think about all these other moments where I've like performed in my life or had to perform in my life. Whenever it's not gone well, it's because I'm too in my head, when I'm in my body, and just in the moment that's when it goes well, you know, yep, and I gave because you're not cutting off that communication?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I'm not cutting off that. And so I gave, on the first day of school, one of my, one of my kids. She asked me to give a keynote speech with an organization in Northwest Arkansas and I was like, you know, absolutely I would love to do it. I put together some slides but I didn't like overload them with text. I didn't practice it. Yes, I just knew the stories I was gonna, I was gonna tell and build it and I was so in my body and so not in my head, and I was like, oh, this feels so good, like I left that feeling like I was on top of the world. You know, it wasn't perfect, but I was not judging myself for it, you know, because you can fit, you can figure out, you can figure out anything, you know, and I just think the more you can just like do something for the sheer joy of it and not for the result, and just be like be in your body, the better it's gonna go.

Speaker 1:

I don't know, I'm obsessed with this. I'm so obsessed with this.

Speaker 2:

And I wrote down that was so like, like I don't even know it's great.

Speaker 1:

It's great because what's happening right is you. You took fast action. It got you to a different place physically, emotionally, logistically right which opened up this opportunity for you to truly reconnect with self. So then you've made choices to slow yourself down, to refocus on two primary things right, like teaching, the podcast and your husband. Right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

But the external things right.

Speaker 1:

Right, and in doing that, you've been able to bring your full self to this. You know your primary work role, which is having this and as simple as putting something on the wall that is making your students think and giving them the invitation to show up imperfectly, and I wrote down when it's not for us, the impact, right, the impact is greater because when we think about academia and we think about simply the grading system, it's really like how perfect was this? When we think about the evaluative piece, right, and so, in a space that has this like perfect mentality, you're giving an invitation to not show up perfectly and in doing so, we're learning about ourselves. And I just think about all of those students who come through your classroom and, whether it's tomorrow, two years from now, 10 years from now, they'll think about the things on your wall or how you showed up, how you owned something that was imperfect and how you rolled with it, and they're going to have a model for that in their life. Right?

Speaker 1:

When so much of what's out there is curated perfection, it's not showing the blemishes, the bumps, the behind the scenes, and it's essentially erasing failure and like failure is not a bad thing, right? I've been thinking about this of I kind of want to document, like every day, how did I fail? How did I fail? Because then, what's the lesson? If we move through this life without it being messy, without opening up opportunities for failure, how are we ever going to grow? So I just think about this beautiful impact that you're making, that you may never know ever the true ripple effects of it, but it's so beautiful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my dad was saying the other day. He was like teaching is hard. He's like right, it seems as though it's hard because you aren't going to actually know the impact that you have, because sometimes it doesn't ever come back to you, which can be kind of which is hard, right. But you just have to act with the best intentions, you just do your best and I just think that for me, yeah, like I've just gotten to this point where it's like nothing, I don't, I'm just like okay, we're done with performing, and I think that was one block for me from connecting to the greatness. It's not a place you arrive, it's inside of you, and like you can block it and suffocate it and you just have to like let it out by just like being who you are, being imperfect, like oh my gosh, the amount of typos and mistakes I make in a day is just like so many, and the eighth graders love to point it out and I just always respond.

Speaker 1:

I do feel like that, like moment, but I'm like you know what?

Speaker 2:

I'm like, I'm a human.

Speaker 2:

You know, you will make typos too, right, you know, and we just kind of you, just kind of like, keep rolling with it and just like the, the figure outable sign is a constant reminder to me too, that to be great, you don't have to have it all like figured out, you're just like doing. You know, you're doing your best. And I think I've accidentally equated greatness with perfection and greatness with, like, multimillion dollars, greatness with achievement, doing everything all at the same time. It's like no, like greatness can look very, very different and it is so personal. Yes, it is personal, yeah, it's just it is. You know, and I think that I had equated for a long time my publishing business with you know this is what will make me great, you know, and really the greatness of my business is in providing a space for women to be able to tell their, to tell their stories. You know, like that's the true greatness of it. It's not what will make me great, it's the greatness is in the opportunity and in the intention of producing the books.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and greatness is in the process. Right, it's not in the outcome. Because if if greatness was in the outcome, we would be living very empty lives because we'd be bouncing from outcome to outcome, to outcome.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely Right. I've been watching all of these crazy good documentaries, like the Tom Brady documentary.

Speaker 2:

Man in the Arena and like Sean White's documentary oh, what is it called? The final run or something like that? Okay, oh my God, all of these you know Michael Phelps's documentary, the weight of gold, like all of these things, and I'm just like I've just been so fascinated by how greatness, like how it's talked about, you know, and, and it feels truly like you know, we, we see these athletes and we say, oh, like they're great because of all these like achievements and really like behind the scenes, like sometimes they don't feel great or they're just like. Oh, I'm only defined by this sense of like achievement. Yeah, and you know, there's this one episode of Sean White's documentary where he's just it's right before the Sochi Olympics so he had two prior gold medals. It's right before the Sochi Olympics in in Russia in 2014, I think, and they were showing footage from behind the scenes of his training and he's so frustrated. He's so frustrated he can't get the tricks.

Speaker 2:

The sport has evolved so much that it's like what used to win him gold medals like is not going to be good enough anymore. And you can just that. You can see that he doesn't feel good enough. You can see that he feels frustrated and go figure, that's the Olympics he doesn't medal in because there's no joy, there's no like I am. You know, I am great because I exist. Like there was none of that. And he didn't win. He didn't even make a medal in that.

Speaker 1:

Olympic yeah.

Speaker 2:

And it was like I don't know, like I don't even know where I'm going with this, but it's just so. It's been really fascinating and interesting to me because part of the year of 2023 was to surrender to the fast action, to the hustle, to just like, you know, we got to, we got to rest, we got to find joy, we got to be a human, you know, and in the process of trying to like, relearn and define and figure out what greatness is like for you know, for myself, and all these documentaries have been really, really eye-opening and fascinating, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it's interesting, right, like I think about, because I obviously work in the world of sport and I have these conversations with athletes every day and when you look at how society builds people up because of their outcome, right.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Because of the outcome lines and then how quickly they tear people down. But there's like I don't think people truly understand what it takes to be at that level, the sacrifices that are made, you know, and like the financial, the emotional, the social, like the relationships, there are so many sacrifices that athletes make for the entertainment of other people and how quick we are to just shit on people.

Speaker 2:

Oh for sure. So then how?

Speaker 1:

do we figure out what it means to be great if all we're seeing is how we treat people?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh for sure. And I think that that's why for so long I felt like I'm not great, because I'm like, oh, my business is so small, Like I'm just a tiny, tiny fish, and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Because just because you're not nationally internationally recognized for something doesn't mean that you're not great in your own way. But we constantly like, if you're I think I was defining greatness as if you're not gold medal winning, nationally recognized, like New York Times bestseller, you were a piece of shit.

Speaker 1:

A million dollar publishing house. Yes, you were a piece of shit, right, and you know like and that's what made nasty, not even a successful like piece of shit, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, like that's what my nasty like inner critic would like tell me. And so, like those voices, those things, that was the quote, unquote motivation to like go. And that is not motivation. That is not. That is coming from a place of like lack and just not goodness you know and comparison right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that too.

Speaker 2:

And it's just. I just think that that is accidentally what happens to a lot of people and a lot of reasons like why, why we quit, why we live within our limits rather than beyond, because what we see, and we see how the media just tears these people down, it's like, oh, they've lost it, this and that. Whatever Patrick Mahomes throws one interception, oh, he's washed up, he's done like for you Like, are you serious right now?

Speaker 1:

I know, but anyway I know. Oh, yes, yes, so so much goodness in here. Okay, what? What have we not touched on? What anything left? That's, that's burning, I mean.

Speaker 2:

I just think that this has been well. First of all, this has been like super fun. Thank you for just letting me just like just go out, like go off. But no, we were talking at the at the beginning of this, and you had said the language of like, you were like the thesis of our conversation is that greatness moves slow, right, and then I truly think that's it. Like you're not going to see on social media, people talking about like the slow, unsexy, unsexy, awesome action. Right, You're going to see fast action celebrated. You're going to see, you know, hustling celebrated. You're going to see even people who say, oh, I'm not hustling, but they're secretly hustling. Oh yeah, Social media is, is a lie, and you just, I've learned that you just have to act from a place that feels good to you and that you're not behind, Like it's all still going to happen, but you know you're still, you're still, you're still great and greatness does move it, it moves, it moves slow and like that's okay.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, it does, it does move slow and it's it's that compound effect, right? I think it. It moves slow at first and then the momentum builds right.

Speaker 1:

Like a lot of I've been having this conversation a lot with people around like I just need the motivation, and when I have the motivation I'll do this. I'm like, well, like, if we think about physics, right, like objects in motion stay in motion, and so that's the power of the small unsexy actions done consistently over time, because then we start to shift these behaviors and these the small unsexy things become our habits, become ingrained, which then builds a foundation, and so then we're not spending energy thinking about how do I set up my day there. There's a rhythm there, right, and, and that gets the momentum, and then there's more space to write the books, to do the things to, you know, to publish the podcasts or whatever. It is because we've created rhythms in our life that are grounded in taking care of ourselves. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

Yeah for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think this is the last thing I want to say, too is just that, like, don't forget to be a person, mm-hmm, you know, don't forget to be a person.

Speaker 2:

The price of your goals doesn't have to be in the sacrifice of just being a person who wants to take half a day to go to an Apple orchard with their kids, right, it doesn't have to be, you know, in giving up every single movie night or feeling guilt for it. Like, you have to be a person, and I think that that is another thing that was reflected that I loved in a lot of those documentaries that I've been watching is that these people who we hold up as great still take time to be people. You know, and you're not gonna. I don't think the you know whatever definition of greatness, like if we go with the common definition of greatness in our society, which is, like you know, the gold medal winners, the people who have the records, you know, it's not gonna be worth it if you don't have your people. It's not gonna be worth it if you don't have time for yourself and just being a person.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh well, you just gave us my journaling ninja friend here, you just gave us our journal prompt for the week, right, Like? So I think that's the invitation to all of us is, what does it mean for you to be a person? And I like to take it back to. I think what's hard in adulthood is getting back in touch with, like the childlike wonder. And so when people are like I don't know what I like to do, I said what did you do when you were a kid, when you were six, seven, eight years old and you had a weekend free and if you could do anything you wanted with it, what would you do? And that, to me, is like what it means to each of us to be a person. And then how can we connect to that in adulthood? Yeah, I love that Whoa, fucking like huge light bulb moment. When I was a kid, I'm thinking what would I do? I would go and, like ride a bicycle around for hours and hours and hours. What is my favorite form of exercise now? Freakin' indoor cycling.

Speaker 2:

I was gonna say cycling. That's so fun, I just j-hewed myself. Yeah, you did.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you did. Oh my gosh. Oh, this is so good. Thank you one for being you. Yeah, thank you for going on this adventure for us to learn from and being willing to share it with us and be vulnerable and honestly like to take risks and speak out against the hustle culture, right, and the things that are out there being celebrated and people are being harmed behind the scenes right, and being harmed in these behaviors, while also having their success there, right, and there's reward. But I love that you are starting the conversation around the yes and right, like the both, and you can be hurt and experience success, but once we've identified, hey, this is no longer working. We don't have to continue pursuing our goals in the same way. We can make the adjustments. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Speaker 1:

We can pull back, we can be people doing these things and being fully engaged in life and still making an impact.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think that it's a daily assessment. I used to think about the way that I took action. I was like, oh, it's in seasons For three months. This is how I'm gonna pursue my goals, and I think we just think in those big chunks of time, but for me, I realize it's like every day. It's a new assessment of how we're gonna show up. Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

And just because you did it one way yesterday does not mean that that has to be how it's approached today.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Mm.

Speaker 1:

Put that on a sticker. Well, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for again coming on and sharing this with us, and we will link up all your books and all the things in the show notes so everyone can connect with you and share with you how they are slowing down, because I think we need to start this conversation.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and I think, just as the last thing, I think there are more people who want to slow down than we realize. I've been having a lot of conversations behind the scenes with people who are like I burnt the F out, like I'm so miserable, like blah, blah, blah Right. So like if you're feeling burnt out, like take a fucking break.

Speaker 1:

Like you've got to take a fucking break. That is the quote of the episode Take off I don't think I've ever sworn this much on a podcast.

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry. I have that effect on people I feel so passionate about all of these topics and seriously like, oh my gosh, like yeah, there are so many more people that want to take breaks Like you just have to do it, because I think we lose way too much if we don't.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I love it.

Speaker 2:

I love you. Thank you I love you too.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much. This has been so good as always.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I can.